Comments on Puppies for Sale! Wait. A Contract, Too?

Let's face it: spay/neuter contracts are all about controlling the market because at the end of the day it is all about money. The excuses are abound as to why I'm wrong and it's not about the money, "Oh I invest so much into each puppy. It's HARD work!" Lmao yeah right. Vet checks for new litters, quality food for 4 weeks, and socialization is all a drop in the bucket compared to what some of these breeders are taking home with each litter. They just don't want competition so they don't allow breeding rights. I would know, I breed dogs but I do not have a spay/neuter contract. While it is important to keep within the breed standards when breeding, it is not my business what someone chooses to do with their dog that they paid for. Fellow breeders: cut the crap cake.

I have an AKC limited registered pup that I purchased with a spay/neuter contract for 6-9 months. Since then, I've been researching and now feel very against neutering my pup for his health, at least at only 6-9 months old. I'm wondering if I truly have to honor this contract? I feel like I'm signing his death warrant getting him neutered, now that I know what I know. I completely respect my breeder's work and effort she puts into her breeding program, and I want to honor her. However, my pup's health is most important to me. I have NO intention of breeding him. I am very responsible and just want him with me a long time. I'm supposed to send her a copy of the neuter paperwork, and I feel like my hands are tied. Any advice?

I am also looking at getting the pup of my dreams, but am nervous the breeder has a spay/neuter contract for me to sign.
I DO NOT want to spay this pup until 2 years old.
How do I get out of this contract??????
Do I sign the contract anyway and then proceed to get a wavier by a vet????
I don't want to lose the opportunity since these dogs are rare.....

Okay, I understand all about not vaccinating AND I have a puppy that I want to adopt under a "foster-to-adopt" agreement from the local shelter. The puppy has had 3 rounds of the standard "puppy vaccines". Because of the bureaucratic rules of the shelter, I was unable to save the puppy from these interventions. Following his last vaccine he has become an itchy, scratchy, constantly licky puppy.
What do I do to help him? If I mention the itchyness to the shelter, they will want me to feed a "gastro diet" because of his "allergies". I don't want to go down that road. I want to resolve this pup's problem. Is it even possible to help him now?

Unfortunately, the law isn't on our side. Just a year + ago, a sick elderly dog with chronic diarrhea was dropped off at a vet's for an examination and tests. The vet vaccinated the dog and days later it passed away. The owner, a law clerk, attempted to sue the veterinarian, brought in Dr. Jean Dodds as an expert witness. Sadly the owner lost the case. This same vet fully vaccinated a geriatric, indoor only cat with kidney failure. No one in the veterinary hospital batted an eye at his actions. I went to a senior partner who just shrugged his shoulders. I will never trust allopathic vets ever again.
http://goo.gl/ggqGV

I've been breeding Australian Shepherds for over 20 years. I have a questionnaire on my site with 28 questions. These questions include links to educational articles. One of the questions asks about food, and I have links to raw food articles. There is also a link to a site for packaged dog foods, like freeze dried raw. Another question is about training, with links to articles on clicker training. Yet another is about vaccines. I also email several articles on providing immunity the natural way. One question asks if they're willing to wait until the dog is over 1 year of age to neuter.
My contract stats that IF the rabies shot is given, it cannot be given at the time of neutering, or the contract is voided.
I also instruct them on how to interview prospective vets, asking their views on a raw food diet and what their definition of minimal vaccines is. (I also point out that I haven't vaccinated my dogs for 4 generations).
I also recently got one of my dogs back at 7 years of age. I live in San Diego, he was up in Berkley. It was a tragic situation (the mother had been murdered by her estranged husband in a murder/suicide, the kids now living with elderly grandparents). and the poor dog had been horribly neglected and turned over to an animal shelter. Unfortunately he was given a 'routine' vaccine. His coat was 3 inches deep in mats and filth, his front feet pussy from a fungal infection. He's been back for a couple of months now and looks like a different dog.
I got emails from the animal shelter and two different rescue organizations who had seen him, all thanking me for taking my dog back. I've also received other complimentary emails from other animal shelters and rescue organizations saying that if all breeders were like me, they'd be out of a job. i wish that more animal shelters and rescues recognized that honorable breeders exist, and aren't part of the problem!
I view my job as being one of education. A LOT of my puppy families have turned whole-heartedly to the holistic form of health care both for their dog and for themselves. I do think it's important to use a warm, friendly approach to this education. I've seen a lot of breeders & practitioners who take the approach of the zealot, which turns a lot of people off. The warm, fuzzy approach is best. :-)

Haven't seen my first post so I'll try again.
I breed Spinone and have a contract that says pup is not to be s/n until at least 2 yrs old. Spinoni are a large breed and slow to mature. I give printed information and talk extensively with potential owners. I even refund money ($300) if they wait to s/n. Sad to say I've only had to do that once. All crash to their vets advice and s/n anyway.

I also need to add that I no longer dock tails on my litters even though the Spinone is a docked breed. As far as I know myself and one other breeder are the only Spinone breeders not docking. People have come to me for pups because I don't dock so it's encouraging to know there are some people trying to the best for their dogs. I'm NOT a PETA supporter. I just don't see the necessity of chopping off body parts.

I will take this a step further. The Austin Humane Society Shelter demanded that I prove, through vet records and a prescription that my CURRENT dog had up to date shots and was on heartworm medication if I wanted to adopt through them. Needless to say I was outraged. I had supported that shelter with donations as well as volunteer work promoting their fundraisers and walking dogs. Never again.

I've been lucky to work with a dog rescue, while mandating spaying/neutering, shots, etc., they have never pushed me or questioned my open beliefs about how I raise my pets. But we recently tried to adopt a cat from a local animal shelter who at first instantly denied our application due to the fact that our pets are unvaccinated. It took lot's of character references from people that knew us, but the most convincing thankfully came from our conventional vet. He point blank told the shelter that even though we choose to decline vaccinations, that we are excellent pet owners and never deny vet care if needed for our pets. It seemed like we had to jump through hoops to get this cat, but I was glad they didn't just see the situation in black and white as they initially did. Of course the kitty has a great home, and our Girl Scout troop is volunteering at this shelter now for a service project. I was really going to be mad if I ended up hating our favorite local shelter ;)

I have bought a pup or two from a pet shop, there is always one or two dogs that have been there way too long and they are marked down for quick sale.
With good care I have been able to get these dogs better and they have been wonderful companions.
I support animal shelters/rescues but they always gave me a hard time and I have on occasion been rejected by them.
I know I am a good dog owner, so it was their loss.

I would like to answer the mean spirited comments about rescues. I have been in rescue for many years and want to say that we are not misguided people, we are not brainwashed. We are people who go into the shit-holes called shelters in many parts of the country to save as many animals as we can. We are treated terribly by many animal control people, if we complain about the abuse of animals in shelters, we can be refused the right to enter the shelter. We are forced to undergo background checks to pull from shelters. We save animals tied to trees with 20ft chains, starving, abused,neglected, injured, sick. We spend hours and hours and many of our own resources to care for animals. We are not misguided or brainwashed, we have just seen the absolute worst side of humanity and we hate every one who treats animals so badly.
30 years ago according to Best Friends, over 13 million animals died every year in shelters, now thru the efforts of countless rescues, the numbers are conservatively around 4 million. As a rescue I hope to see that number continue to drop.
I understand the beliefs that responsible people will not let their animals breed so therefore they don't spay/neuter, but I truly believe the responsible people only make up maybe .010 of all animal owners, so forgive me and those of us in rescue who will not trust people.
Now, having said all that, I have learned much these past few years about raw feeding, I do, and the overuse of vaccines, I don't any more for my animals. Many of us in rescue also understand that, but we are frequently powerless to not vaccinate or spay/neuter due to the regulations from States that determine what licensed rescues must do.
So, please cut us a break and don't trash all rescues. And I don't know of many rescues that are run by conventional vets, they don't have the time!

What if all of us prospective pet parents who want to buy from a breeder typed up our own contract? It would state that archaic and harmful practices which are not in the best interests of the new family member would be forgone, including vaccines and neutering, tail and ear mutilation and feeding dead, dry food. It could include quotes (a few on-point paragraphs) from published studies showing the health benefits of raising what will be YOUR animal, in the natural way, and cite the sources to encourage further reading. If a breeder won't sign your contract, then you need to find another breeder.
Rescuers need to be schooled too. They are caring but often misguided people, and they feel good about what they are doing because they are brainwashed. You may not get anywhere with rescue organizations, because many are run by conventional vets. You may get laughed at or at worst, yelled at, by an impassioned, brainwashed do-gooder, but a healthy animal is what you have to lose. Oh, and I think your contract should mandate a subscription to Dr. Falconer's newsletter! They should be reading that anyway.

I have two rescue dogs..and I have had to battle with the rescues i got them from every step of the way! With my first dog, i was able to hold off her spay until she was over 1 year old and went through at least one heat (i would have waited longer or skipped it all together, but even getting to that point was a struggle). My second rescue, from a different rescue, was even more of a fight. According to the contract i signed when i got her as a puppy, i had to have her spayed within 3 months and then provide them with proof, as well as proof of additional vaccinations. As soon as that 3 month mark came, i started to receive phone calls from the rescue insisting that i have it done asap, as well as show them proof. I tried to ignore them, but their calls became more frequent and then actually threatening...telling me i was "going to kill my dog", and that they would take her from me if i did not comply. I was forced to comply, as there was no way i was going to lose my new beloved family member. I then searched far and wide to find a vet...as most in my part of the country would not even agree to spay unless they had their documented shots first. I then found a somewhat holistic vet who agreed to separate vaccines and also not administer the full dose (because as we know one size DOES NOT fit all!)..and a few weeks later i had my baby spayed just to get the rescue to leave us alone! In the end i am still bitter about this and wish i could have done things differently, but really do not feel i even had a choice. My dogs have been raw fed since day one, i do not use pesticide laden flea/tic preventative but choose natural options instead, and my girls have not had a vaccine since...and mark my words, will never have one again! I would love to add another dog to our family someday, and i refuse to purchase a dog from a breeder since there are so many wonderful dogs being put down in shelters every day. So here is my dilemma...how does one try to do "the right thing" and rescue instead of buying, and still have the free will and ability to make the best choices as i see fit for my dogs??? Dr. Falconer, I see your link to the list of natural rearing breeders, but is there any such list to any rescues? Can one be started? I can't believe it is 2015 and there are still so many people who choose to just follow the herd and not think for themselves when it comes to vaccines (and a million other things)...and then think it is ok to push those uninformed beliefs and practices onto others! I think in the end i would have an easier time making these decisions for a child, as opposed to a dog. Please help :)

My breeder made her recommendations, like most breeders do, but I had a long conversation before I even decided she was the right breeder for me. I told her what I planned to fed, raw, how I would be vaccinating, titer testing, and that I would not neutering my dog till he was over 18 months, if at all. She was fine with all of it when she realized how well informed I was about each topic. Sad to say the majority of people who want dogs have no clue about the health of a dog, so breeders make their recommendations. Some breeders who educate themselves on what is the right course of health care can only hope for the best, but at the end of the day the owner is going to do what they want to do, contract or no contract.

I am a breeder with a similar contract,however really quite different in that we only sell to raw/vaccine free,naturally rearing folks.We do not have a spay/neuter clause,however if this surgical procedure is absolutely necessary then only after 2 years of age or older.No caustic chemical flea/tick/parasite control.I am available pretty much 24/7 to answer questions or to help in any way.I also encourage my puppy people to keep in touch with me on a regular basis & love to help if I can with any issues in my realm.Love photos too.
Same contract-way different stipulations:) We have built up a reputation for those folks wanting a naturally raised Sheltie,mostly word of mouth,yahoogroups,facebook & dedicated folks like you,Dr. Will Falconer.And the proof is inn the pudding:)
Cheers,Barb/Behaven Shelties
Raw Fed/Vaccine Free X31 Years