Comments on Cranial Cruciate Ligament Rupture

This is really helpful. However, I have a 4 year old Belgian shepherd with apparently weak joints, including a knee. She loves to run and play but can end up lame easily. I'm a now retired professional homeopath (with animal speciality) and my animals are treated naturally. My dog has responded well to homeopathy, massage therapy, acupressure, red light therapy, tissue salts, raw diet, joint green lipped mussel etc. Can you comment on the possibility of hereditary joint weakness in some breeds as a precursor to knee injury - and how to treat it well with homeopathy? I feel we're just managing the situation rather than curing. Any guidance would be so helpful.

About 45 years ago, my dog, a terrier/shepherd mix weighing about 35 lbs, and I were playing tug. I picked her up off the ground and when she came back down, she immediately started limping. After a couple of days I took her to the vet, who pronounced a cruciate ligament tear. $700 (remember, this was 45 years ago, and I was a young single mother trying to make ends meet) and several weeks later, she was fine. But within a year she had blown the other stifle, and she had to have the other side done. According to the vet, "we don't know why, but when one goes, the other usually follows, probably because there's an inherent weakness." Happily, she never got cancer, and lived to be just shy of 15. It's been only now that I realized the connection between CCL damage and diet.

That was before I knew about raw feeding and homeopathy. My last few dogs have benefited greatly from the change.

Very good information! I have had 3 Presa Canario dogs have torn CCLs and I elected not to do surgery…they weighed approximately 100 lbs each. With high doses of chrondoitin and glucosamine and Accupunture all dogs healed with same “leash exercise” and eliminating running during recovery. All ended up having normal activity of running and swimming after recovery!

I have a 3 year old English Bulldog who has had issues with both his back leg CCLs over the past year. I have fed him raw since a puppy, don’t vaccinate routinely—only required vaccines, don’t use heartworm/tick meds, and give many supplements. He has no health issues except a hiatal hernia which was surgically repaired earlier this year and he’s doing great since the surgery. No skin issues...a truly healthy bully. He pulls terribly on the leash so that’s why I’m assuming he’s had knee issues. Luckily I have a physician medicine and rehab vet in my area who I sent him to for much rehab after he “partially” tore his left and months later his right. At that time, the surgeon in the group saw him and said he felt he didn’t need surgery and to continue with rehab. When he injured each leg, he was slightly lame for a couple days each time and that was it. About two months ago he was outside and started major lameness on the right leg that persisted for 3-4 days so we carried him around as didn’t want him to further injur his leg. I gave arnica, 2 weeks later Ruta, then a month later Calc carb. He went to therapy 8 times over the past month without any lameness and is doing very well...never shows signs of injury or pain, just his legs don’t look super straight and upright which is concerning. Just last week I had the same surgeon evaluate him and he said the right leg was fully torn and had much fluid and arthritis on the right knee and suggested he have surgery on that knee....nothing urgent and elective but would give him a better quality of life down the road especially since he’s so young. He’s a very active bulldog and my baby so can’t imagine him having limited mobility when he’s older as I’d feel terrible for not doing the surgery earlier but at the same time wonder if he needs surgery since he’s walking just fine and shows no signs of lameness or pain. What should I do? Kills me as everything I read says feed raw, don’t give chemicals/meds, and don’t over vaccinate and I do all those things.

My rescue Ridgeback had the surgery and died four years later of osteosarcoma in the exact spot as the surgery. She was rescued as a senior and the damage was done. She had seven teeth pulled shortly after adopting her. She smelled and her coat was sticky. Of course no vaccs, flea and tick, or heartworm during the four years I had her, and excellent diet and care. Can we also talk about spaying and neutering too young? My first rescue Ridgeback was spayed at eight weeks old. She died at the age of five of thrombocytopenia, after a stroke. My third rescue Ridgeback was vaccinated every time she hit the shelter (I was her third owner by the time she was one years old). She was recently diagnosed with a heart murmur, but hopefully with good care, she will live a long life. What needs to happen so that we change the frightful things we impose on our pets?

My English Bull mix, Lola, had the TPLO surgery on both knees, just six months apart, to the tune of over $8000. Took me 2 years to pay it off. I was made to feel that the surgery had to be done ASAP, and I couldn't stand to see her in pain. She couldn't sit or lay down without help getting up. She is 11 now and is very active though she looks a bit pigeon toed. She has been on a raw diet for the past 4 years and I've stopped all chemicals and vaccines. (Since I lost my beautiful Boxer to bone cancer, I have done a lot of research and I feel so guilty about believing everything the vet told me). I had no idea that her knee issues could have been related to the vaccines.

My 10-year-old Pyr ran into some deep snow after a fox. Tore her right CCL. Yes, sadly, I was made to feel like a degenerate owner for considering no surgery. Had the fishlike surgery done followed by rehab. She is now 12. Her right hind leg shakes a lot.

She was vaccinated when brought into rescue at 6-months-old. As time went, I had her rabies done a couple of years later. She developed itching so she was scraping herself along the road. Prednisone was given. I turned down the kibble. At that point I questioned what was making her so itchy. Fired that vet. At about three, I got her into raw. And itching stopped.

Found a wholistic vet only in the last year. Herbal remedies helped.

I am hoping that her other leg doesn’t go. She does have DM, something that seems accepted as part of an aging large breed.

Years ago, I had a terrier-shepherd cross that blew her cruciate ligament while we were playing. The vet told me it was the way she landed (she was holding onto a stick while I spun her around once, her favorite game). Whoops! So I opted for the surgery and after a long convalescence, she recovered. Within TWO MONTHS, the other cruciate ligament went, and without any play whatsoever. "Oh," says my vet, "that's common. When one goes, the strain from putting weight on only one side weakens the other." So, I opted for the surgery again. The dog was only about 4 or 5 years old, and I loved her dearly.

That was back before I lost two cats and a pregnant mare to vaccines, discovered alternative medicines (especially homeopathy), and smartened up. My last two dogs have been adult rescues, and once they're with me, they never get another vaccine. I wish I'd known sooner.

At 8 1/2 my 18 lb dog had a partial tear, running and darting. I had been warned it was likely with this particular knee. I ordered a brace and gradually it repaired itself. She hated it but oh well. Now at 10 1/2 , raw fed, on joint supplements, turmeric, green lipped mussel she is doing well.

This happened to my extra large labrador golden retriever mix. After running hard, he was limping, then only able to walk on three legs. Then a few days later, a loud cracking sound, which I came to learn that was the damaged meniscus. I went to several vets, all were adamant about tplo surgery as the gold standard, but after researching the dangers of tplo, and pain and suffering and No guarantee the surgery would go well and after surgery, he may never walk normally again, I decided on NO surgery. With more research, came across the posh dog knee brace. We tried that and it did work wonders at supporting the knee for short dog walks right away. No cage time needed. We followed the protocol and in less than a month the cracking sound stopped, so the meniscus had healed. Then wearing the brace twice daily for dog walks and the dog walks were longer and longer, and his walking improved to normal. We kept using the posh brace for dog walks for many months to make sure the knee was better. He was walking normally in only a few months. He hasn't worn the brace for over a year now and has been normally ever since. With the support of the posh brace, the other knee never failed. Never bought the painful tplo or tta surgery. I found the posh brace at poshdogkneebrace.com Best decision was avoiding the tplo or tta surgery nightmare. The posh brace made this possible.

Thank you for your suggestions. I would have no idea where to look for a NR golden breeder. I'm actually on a wait list for a puppy from Callie's sire's original breeder. Breeding hasn't occurred yet. While I am waiting, I will see if I can find a natural breeder. I plan to raise the next puppy as natural as possible and am thankful found your site. I beleive Callie was healthy and I did most things right to keep her healthy. One thing I question now though is the diet as I fed her grain free boutique foods (Fromm, Zignature) and these have now been linked to DCM. I don't feel that the answer is to go with conventional foods and still believe strongly in holistic diets, raw diets, etc. I know to avoid feeding legumes bc it blocks taurine. Not sure how I feel about feeding grain though since the researchers caution about feeding grain-free diets. I am curious about your thoughts on the latest research regarding DCM and the grain free foods and how to avoid taurine deficiency. Thanks again.

Forgot to give Callie's age in above comment. She had just turned 8 before we lost her in July 2018.

So I have just "stumbled" upon your site after reading about you on the Golden Retriever Forum from another member. My golden, Callie, partially tore her CCL November of 2017. We saw both a conventional and a holistic vet. Took her to holistic vet for acupuncture, underwater treadmill PT, cold laser, rested her, and supplemented her already holistic diet with ligaplex and other supplements. I was conservative with vaccines and worked with my conventional vet in not over vaccinating. I did however give the 3 year rabies vaccine as scheduled. Titer one time for distemper and parvo and one was "low" so I was talked into revaccination for that. Fast forward, she had a setback, sprinted to my neighbor's and ended up tearing the CCL completely in June 2018. This happened after having gone for the PT and acupuncture/chiro tx for about 7 months. So it didn't stabilize enough with the holistic tx unfortunately. After the tear, I panicked, took her to conventional vet who confirmed full tear. Consulted with a surgeon who ended up doing TTA surgery. We unfortunately lost her 3 weeks post surgery . The ER vet suspected a blood clot. I will never know for sure what happened to cause her sudden passing. What I do know, is I lost the love of my life and am deeply heartbroken. I Will be for eternity. I wish I had some answers. Perhaps what you have written about regarding CCL really being an autoimmune disease. But we tried the holistic route and it wasn't enough. Maybe you can give me some insight bc no one seems to be able to do that. And I am on a waitlist to get another golden and need to figure out what to feed, vaccinations, and preventing this from happening again. I also worry about DCM bc I fed Callie a grain free diet primarily and much of the foods I had been feeding are suspect foods according to the UC Davis research. Please help.

Thanks, Debbie

My big girl - 160lb english mastiff - tore her CCL while hiking at age 5.5yrs. She finished the hike with a bad limp... we rested it, but it never went away and we finally got it diagnosed by the vet: CCL tear; surgery recommended.

After researching the options, cutting bone to heal a ligament just did not sit right with me. I found a Conservative Management support group, and they've been awesome.

It's been 1.5 years since the injury, and my mastiff has been back to 90%+ of all activity for about 4 months now (we're adding more activity back slowly). The second knee is still fine (although our current vet did say it was a little 'loose', so the potential for injury is there). We have exercise "homework" from our vet to regain muscle and flexibility, and balance her gait again, which is all doing wonders. We did get a Posh brace for her, but she did fine without using it much.

She's a happy girl, and I'm very glad we never put her through the pain of bone-cutting surgery.

I will say, being a mastiff in a pretty laid back family, the extra R&R required to heal the knee has not been a huge problem for us. A more active dog might have a harder time with it.

I have two Havanese. Both of them have torn ACL...back right leg for one, both back legs for the other. Initially I took the first one to a board certified orthopedic surgeon. He saw dollar signs and tried to push me into a very invasive TPLO surgery using a lot of scare tactics and guilt-tripping. Luckily, I was led to, who is now, my primary vet - 30 years conventional medicine turned animal chiropactor, homeopathic and nutritional vet. He uses micro-current to aid the body's natural healing abilities to heal itself. It is time consuming, weeks of therapy, and not cheap...but neither dog has had surgery and the tears are healed. I dodn't see micro-current mentioned so I wanted to throw that into the mix.

I had posted this as a reply on an older question, but thought I would put it here for general anecdotal information. I rehabilitated my Rottie from 2 knee injuries (RR and 2 weeks later LF) using the tiggerpoz site information. Basically what you are doing is allowing scar tissue to develop, which stabilizes the joint. Yes it takes quite some time to fully heal and yes it is very hard to keep a puppy or even young dog on very limited mobility. Sammy’s injuries happened when he was going through a huge growth spurt when he was 8 months old. Their joints are very unstable when that is happening as everything does not grow at the same speed.
This winter (he is almost 3 now) he started being a bit slow getting up, especially after a lot of activity. (Overnight rest would make him fine in the morning) I started researching turmeric as I had success with my own tendonitis with it (nothing else would work). On FB, there is a group called Turmeric User Group which was started by a vet in Australia (Doug English). You make a paste called Golden paste with organic turmeric, coconut oil, fresh cracked pepper, and Ceylon Cinnamon. It is cooked, and the extra ingredients make it metabolically available. Turmeric is a natural anti inflammatory and will relieve pain. It also has a lot of other great properties to promote healing. This is what I use for my Sammy and it works great. It has also helped me greatly with my arthritis in my hands.
I am a huge proponent of good food, natural remedies, and do not believe in over vaccination of dogs, heartworm poison, or flea / tick poison (had a seizure dog previously, and learned way too much). I am so thankful that I found Doug English’s research. It is always great to find things that work with next to no side effects (after all, turmeric is a food). :) I am also lucky that we now have a good holistic vet (certified vet, accupuncture, and chiropractic) in my town. Thank goodness after the abuse I received from my other local vet.
I think vets are way too quick to jump to surgery conclusion. Not everything is fixed with a pill and surgery, and many times it does not work or causes more problems than it fixes.
This is a great site, btw. :)

i have a 15 year old jack russel male , dog who has started limping so i took him to the vets the vet said it was his ruptured ligerment and that it would be kinder if i had the dog put to sleep becouse he has a heart mermer and would more than likely not pull through an opperation on the back leg and the other leg would more than likely go the same way before the other leg healed ,. can you please advise me what i should do ive to come up with a decision by 17 /3 2016 would i be doing the right thing putting jack to sleep please answer,

I thought you might be interested in my experiment with CCL and my JRT/border collie Jack (and a protocol that includes chia seeds!). He is almost 10 and has been with me for 4.5 years. Prior to joining me, he was vaccinated annually and fed the worst kibble on the planet. Now he is raw fed and hasn’t been vaccinated since he joined me. The only consistency is his high energy level and his love of chasing balls, squirrels….. anything, really.
For almost a year, he has been favouring his rear leg. Last June it was confirmed that he had cruciate ligament damage in that leg. I opted to practice R&R (almost impossible for a JRT) and your homeopathic protocol, as well as give anti-inflammatories like turmeric. I was fairly consistent through to Oct/Nov but nothing seemed to make a noticeable difference. He was now carrying his rear leg more than he was walking on it, especially after resting.
Last fall, I tried to get an appt at a  canine centre that does physio and offers non-invasive treatments — but a referral was not forthcoming from my vet – other than a grocery list of pain killers!
Through my work with Dogs Naturally and your newsletters, I learned about MANGANESE. So since Oct/Nov — about 2-3 months — I’ve been adding ground flax and CHIA SEEDS to the dinners of both dogs. As well, for a good 2+ months I’ve been making bone broth which they get 5-7 times a week. And I’ve tired harder to taper Jack’s exercise.
AND THE RESULT – drum roll please:  Almost three months later — NO CARRYING OF THE LEG. NO LIMPING!!!  I can’t say definitively which was helping more — bone broth or flax/chia or slowing him down — but there is nothing else that’s any different. Pretty cool, huh? I feel that by supporting joint health, it’s helped immensely. I think our days of going to the park and chasing balls from the chuck-it are over but at least he still has his yard to run in, long walks and indoor play.
Bone broth isn’t the most appetizing thing to me, but I am using it in my soups so it is hidden. I was using it in soups for my mom (at 86 she has arthritis, Type 2 diabetes, low kidney function, overall weakness) but now that the doctor has her on insulin — Grrrrr -- problem solved! — so she doesn’t need to watch her diet!  That’s a topic for another day!

I have a 90 pound American Pit Bull Terrier. He is now almost 16 months old. He has been showing signs of CLD since he was about 10 months old. It is in both back legs as he intermittently limps from one to the other. I really don't have the money to do TPLO surgery. I think he would need it for both legs if I went that route. Additionally, he is very wild and I think the surgery would be a waste of money and just be putting him through something that eventually would not have a good turn out. What do you recommend I do for him? Also, do the Glucosamine supplements really have any effect? Most literature that I have read show no actual evidence to support them.

I am really fascinated by this article. In October our 6 year old mastiff tore both her ACL ligaments. We went through the surgery and recovery and things were going wonderful. We woke up one day early May and she as lethargic with pale gums. The next day after seeing a specialist she was diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder. We had her hospitalize and were attempting to treat it when she developed blood clots and diabetes. We had to make the incredibly painful decision to put her to sleep. The vet said mosquito/tick bites could have jumped started the disease. We never treated her with preventative products but now I feel terrified something would happen to our other dogs and I am choosing to do preventive measures on them.