Comments on Your Dog Bit Someone and Out of Date on Rabies Vaccine?

Not sure this will be seen but hopefully yes.
My friend’s seven year old Chihuahua snapped at my hand, which I yanked away but the edge of its teeth caused two small minor scrapes across that did not bleed, but did lightly break the skin.
My friend does work with her hands. They’re always cut and she’s always sticking her hands in the dogs mouth. Unfortunately, she’s an anti-vaccination person and although her dog was vaccinated six years ago for rabies, she hasn’t been vaccinated since. The dog is mainly indoors and only goes outside to relieve itself being that the dog is so small. She is always watching it and the dog isn’t ever left alone by itself outside. It’s very small less than 5 pounds so obviously if it was ever a bit more attacked by anything she would’ve seen it and she claims 100% that she knows the dogs never been exposed to any kind of other animals. However, me being neurotic and anxious it is concerning to me that the dog is not up-to-date with its rabies shots.
I don’t think the dog has rabies just like I don’t think my dog has rabies or has been exposed but we don’t know 100% if I go to the doctor or ER I’m going to have to tell the truth about the situation in order to get the correct answer as to what I should do And if I lie and say that some random dog bit me and I don’t know anything about them they’re probably going to make me get rabies shots which I don’t want to get. I’ve shown the scratch to all my other friends who have dogs and responsibly vaccinate them. They tell me I shouldn’t worry 99% of me says I shouldn’t worry, but the fact that once you do get rabies, you’re dead is the one percent of anxiety and worry that I have. Any advice on your part would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

I took the short rabies course and feel I have a good understanding. I do want my dogs to have a vaccination however, I see the first one is before a year old, then the booster one year later is recommended but the class said boosters don’t work. Why is a second one recommended for those that choose to vaccinate against rabies? Also, if he had the first shot at 10 months and he’s now going on 3, did I miss some specific window? I just need clarification on the second shot “booster”. Thank you.

The annotated compendium is a good starting point, but I really think people need to do their own research and find out what is actually on the books where they live. Here in Pennsylvania, rabies vaccination/exposure is regulated by both the Health Department and the Department of Agriculture. For bites involving humans, you'll deal with the Health Department, who says that all dogs are subject to a 10 day quarantine, regardless of vaccination status (Title 28 § 27.162). If your dog bites a dog, you'll deal with the Ag department. PA does have a rabies vaccination law (7 PA Code Chapter 16, subchapter C.), but it is out of date in that it has not been updated to include the exemption provisions passed in 2012 (those are contained in the Rabies Prevention and Control in Domestic Animals and Wildlife Act (3 P.S. § 455.8 )). State law includes post exposure provisions (Chapter 16, subchapter B), however, they are suspended and superseded by a general quarantine order (48 Pa.B. 6930; 10/6/18). The quarantine order basically says that if a dog is overdue for a vaccination (this includes dogs with a written exemption), it is 100% up to the Bureau of Dog Law enforcement if your dog will be subjected to a 120 day quarantine or a 45 day home observation period. A fact sheet issued by PDA titled "Understanding Rabies Quarantines for Veterinary Clinics" specifically says: "When the Compendium and the Commonwealth Laws, GQO or regulations do not agree, the Laws, GQO and regulations supersede the Rabies Compendium.". Basically, the quarantine order rules and to heck with the compendium. Colorable law at its greatest. I suspect that this sort of scheme is pulled elsewhere.

My pet GSD bit my vet yesterday and his annual vaccination is outdated by 1 month so, what should i do now ? Seeking for your help please guide me asap . Will they sue us?

My pet GSD bit me today evening and his annual vaccination is outdated so, what should i do now ? Seeking for your help please guide me asap .

Hi. Our Husky has had one rabies vaccine at 5 months and is due for second exactly one year later, however, vet doesn’t want to vaccinate again due to seizures, which are now under control for 2 months by using 15 mg of Phenobarbital, and he’s been weaned off of that almost at this point . Giving him zinc and using herbs and homeopathy to stave off their return. My concern is...he didn’t have the second dose, which was done in vaxxed dogs in the Dodd study. Is the first dose only a primer and that second dose after one year is what ‘cements’ or somehow completes initial dose and confers immunity (I’ve read u recommend doing two doses in one of ur comments). If I delay the shot another 6 months (just to get him hopefully stronger/seizure free for longer period) will he forever be considered ‘out of date’ moving forward by authorities (If an event happens) even if we follow the guidelines afterward? Vet took titers, no results yet and will give exemption (IL) if they come back ‘satisfactory’. Thanks, in advance :)

My dog bit someone in my property, she has been vaccinated for rabies, but outdated. The person who got bit needs to report to the health department. Don't know what to do. My dog did't bite out of aggression but out of excitement and never bitten anyone before. Should I just sit and wait for the health department to show up or should I take action and take the dog to the vet and get a rabies titer and updated rabies shot?

Hi! I have a problem on my hands, my 1 yr and 5 month old dog and I were playing with a toy and he accidentally bit my hand when he bit onto the toy. It was a good hard bite and it broke the skin but I don't think I would have gone to the doctor if I hadn't just found out I was pregnant. I looked at an email from his vet clinic a few days earlier that reminded me that his rabies vaccine booster was due a month ago. I went to the doctor (because pregnant and worried that i needed a tetanus shot which I got) and they had to file with animal control. I lied to animal control and said that it was a dog I met while out walking b/c I didn't want it on my dogs record. He's now saying that I have to go get all of these anti-rabies shots and I'm worried that will be terrible for my baby, curious of the odds that my dog has rabies with it being 1 mo. "expired" . Should I play it safe and just go get the shots? Thanks for any help -Worried

I'm so scared. My male Catahoula got away from my 18 yo daughter who was walking him and he bit another dog who got very hurt and is at the vet right now. I hope the little dog makes it. :...(

My dogs last rabies shot was 17 months ago. He was vaccinated at the humane society in Sept 2016 where I adopted him from. I didn't realize he was vaccinated by them and he got vaccinated when I adopted him in Nov 2016 at the appointment to get his heartworm meds. Then in April 2017 I took him to another vet who vaccinated him again when I took him in because I didn't have his original record from Nov and the very said it's best to have a copy of the record just in case.

I found the folder with all his 2016 records last year.

I'm just really scared they'll try to kill my dog.

I adopted a stray cat who was living outside with her 4 kittens in a shed. Apparently Montreal has a huge stray/feral cat problem. A volunteer from a cat rescue helped me trap her and took her to the SPCA and she was spayed, given core vaccinations and de wormed. I took the cat to a vet for her booster shots about a month ago and yesterday I brought her in for a Rabies vaccination. When I got home I read the paperwork and the label from the vial they stick on the certificate said the vaccine expired 3 weeks ago! I was very annoyed that the Vet didn't verify what she was injecting my cat with, I had words for her and she offered to re vaccinate my cat for free, I declined and said I will take a refund instead! I am not sure what to do. I do know I need to find a new vet because I don't trust this one.

As a CVT, i was shocked by the first few paragraphs of this article. Who ever thougt "1 and done" when it comes to vaccines has no business taking an animal into their home. 1st time vaccines need to be booster-ed 2-3 times the first year and every year after. Some clinics offer a 3 year rabies vaccine but THAT DOES NOT APPLY TO DISTEMPER, BORDETELLA OR OTHERS! you STILL need to go into the clinic once a year! (At least!) Let the professionals worry about over-vaccination. If you are unsure about what your clinic says, get a second opinion! There is no rule saying you cant change clinics. Look for an AAHA accredited hospital. If you cant afford the vet bills, you cant afford the pet. Sorry to be blunt but a pet is a financial commitment, not a right. Also, for the love of your pet do NOT feed blue buffalo. Google "blue buffalo lawsuit" AND READ! Do not get duped by their false advertising. DONT WORRY ABOUT WHAT IS IN YOUR PETS FOOD, WORRY ABOUT WHAT IT LACKS! Trust companies with LABORATORIES who test their product and above all else: look for a food that is "COMPLETE AND BALANCED FOR ALL LIFE STAGES." That is allllll you need to read on a bag of pet food!

The 2016 Compendium now treats domestic animals that are not up-to-date with their vaccine, but have had one in the past, as they treat animals that are current, (booster and 45-day observation under owner's control). The only exception is when the booster is delayed, in which case public health officials have the option of increasing the observation period. This is wonderful news, but I am still looking for the evidence that an up-to-date vaccinated dog can contract rabies. I've found evidence of one cat that reportedly did, but I can't find any dogs in the past 12 years, except one instance where the vaccine was recalled. Can anyone out there share any info that might be helpful?

Great read. Thank you.
1. What happens if we are overdue for vaccinations but want titers for rabies done at the vet? Will they report the non vaccinated rabies dog to the country? Will they still do the titer draw?
2. What are your thoughts on the TF mercury free rabies vaccines? I read they're better but not 100% safe either...

My 5 yr old and I came home and my husband told us that our neighbor Tammy and her son Sam had just dropped by to see us. My 5 yr old was excited to have a visitor but sad that she had missed them. So, although it was dinner time we walked 4 houses down and knocked on the door. Tammy has a big dog, I have not really seen it because she says it is territorial and has always put it in a large crate whenever I have come to her door. For reasons unknown at this point, Tammy can't even explain it, this night she did not put the dog in the crate but instead held it by the collar with one hand and opened the door with the other. The (totally unprovoked, yes we were on HIS property but we were simply going to them after they had come to us when we were not home...that is as close to an invitation as you can get) lunges out in a split second and bites my child. Tammy then goes and puts the dog in the crate and comes back to check on my child. We take her into the house and clean and bandage the "wound." I have had a hard time calling it a "bite" seeing as it is a one tooth puncture wound. We then sat and ate pizza and talked for about an hour (the dog was in the crate the whole time). I asked her about the dogs vaccinations and she said he was "up to date." Because she said the dog was up to date I did not take my child to the ER that night. I told Tammy that I understand it was an "accident" and that I would do whatever I could to not take her for medical care. After all her dog is up to date and it is a one tooth puncture wound. My child wanted to go visit the next day (she was not in fear) so I figured no harm, no foul...I will not let her go over there again but it was no big deal. I pick her up from school. Her arm is red, warm to the touch, swollen it was infected. I drove her straight to the doctors and I called Tammy on the way. I told her that I had no choice but to get medical care because it was now infected and I needed her shot records showing that he was "up-to-date" on his rabies shot (I knew the doctor would require because they would be reporting it to the Health Department). She hesitated and then said well according to his certificate he is over do but he is fine. He doesn't have rabies. Let me tell you that if she had been "up to date" on her rabies shot the thought of suing would never cross my mind. We have been through hell over the last 72 hours dealing with the CDC, doctors (who have little experience dealing with dog bites, next time I will take her straight to the ER), the health department, animal control...by the time it was reported and animal control showed up it was to late and after the 72 hours. This was all after discussions with the doctor of how PEP treatment is not without risk (treatment for my daughter that includes human globulin blood products and would be like giving her 9 blood transfusions giving her the risk of Hep C, HIV and whatever else we don't even know about that one can get from someone else's blood)....then he told me that even though I am the parent the decision for her to get treatment is not mine but the Health Department's. So now the dog is on 10 day quarantine at Tammy's house (which btw almost did NOT happen simply because I was so pissed off by her telling me that the dog was "up-to-date" when in fact her documentation showed an expired shot record that I felt like she might not tell the truth about the health of her dog over the next 10 days....denial is not only a river in Egypt ;) I could have not signed off and her dog would have gone to animal control for 10 days at her cost and I can assure you that as aggressive as this dog is it would NOT be returning to Tammy. I have spent the last 4 days consumed by this (educating myself about rabies for 4 days and nights it is 5:22 a.m. and I am still up researching). I am NOW thoroughly pissed and thinking about a lawsuit (documenting everything). It did not start out this way. Had the dog been up to date not according to a titer (which she did not have) but according to a vet we would have gone to the doctor gotten the antibiotics for the bite (topical and oral) and gotten back on with life. I am an animal lover, I have 2 dogs, a lizard, a hamster, fish and a crab but telling people to skip the shots after the first one is just ridiculous and irresponsible. Look at the hell this is putting my family through! You quote Compendium but you fail to mention this:
Rabies Serology. Certain jurisdictions require evidence of vaccination and rabies virus antibodies for animal importation. Rabies virus antibody titers are indicative of a response to vaccine or infection. Titers do not directly correlate with protection because other immunologic factors also play a role in preventing rabies, and the ability to measure and interpret those other factors is not well-developed. Therefore, evidence of circulating rabies virus antibodies in animals should not be used as a substitute for current vaccination in managing rabies exposures or determining the need for booster vaccinations (27--30).
(SOURCE: Compendium Part 1(A.)(10.))
Keep in mind that not only is it too late for my daughter if this dog is in fact infected with rabies from this dog bite but even if she did get approved for PEP which is not even up to me, her mother but some state health official they do NOT know how the PEP Rabies treatment effects children. All because someone wanted to be an irresponsible (in my eyes) dog owner and go to websites such as this that tell her to use a titer (not scientifically proven as stated in the Compendium) to keep her out of trouble if her dog were to bite someone.
I also happen to have gotten accepted to law school on the very day this dog bit my child. By day 4 of this nightmare, I now understand why people sue over a simple "dog bite."
As an educated professional you should be ashamed of yourself for giving people the false sense that this is ok to not vaccinate their animals. The public safety comes FIRST. Until the studies are proven and complete....keep in mind and I know you know this....once a study is complete it still has to be verified and proven that it is a reliable study so although this rabies challenge is almost complete it is still far from over.
STOP giving people a false sense of security and risking the health of the general public by advising people to not get their animals rabies vaccines. THIS is not the common cold!
According to the Compendium: Rabies has one of the highest case-fatality ratios of any infectious disease.
If you are reading this consider this a warning from a legal standpoint - get your pet vaccinated if you want to be sure that you will not be sued should your dog bite someone.
Food for thought!
A Disturbed Mom in Florida

Reading the AVMA stance on rabies vaccine waivers makes me angry. Specifically the wording that the vaccine is NOT contraindincated in most immunocomprimised animals. wouldnt the labeling and vaccine insert contradict this statement !?
https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Pages/Annual-Rabies-Vaccination-Waiver.aspx
It also goes on to say advanced age is not grounds for waiver to be given...

Do birds carry and spread rabies? My dog caught and killed 2 low flying small ones today :(

My pups titers every year were up! Now this year they were below the .5 level and big pressure to vaccinate. My other pup before this one got cancer and did all those things mentioned above like chasing waves, skateboarders bikers anything that moved :(. I now feel it's what killed him because he did get shot every three yrs. does anyone know how I can save my pup from having to have another shot? :(

Dr. Falconer,
Thank you for taking the time to post the lovely pictures of nature in your newsletter.
Sandy

URL for CDC directives to veterinarians for caring for client animals:
http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/specific_groups/veterinarians/potential_exposure.html
There is a vast difference in the protocol of how to treat clients with up-to-date vaccinations versus clients without u-t-d vaccination. It is suggested that unvaccinated pets be euthanized immediately and if the owner is unwilling, placed in isolation for 6 months... I would strongly urge you to heed Dr. Falconer's advice (as well as Dr. Schultz and Dr. Dodds) of getting at least one rabies vaccination.
This is written under the "Vaccination" section under the sub heading of Serologic titers. It will be a milestone for sure when the results of The Rabies Challenge Fund change the minds and then the laws to benefit our pets.
"Titers do not directly correlate with protection because other immunologic factors also play a role in preventing rabies, and the ability to measure and interpret those other factors are not well developed. Therefore, evidence of circulating rabies virus antibodies should not be used as a substitute for current vaccination in managing rabies exposures or determining the need for booster vaccinations in animals."
Dr. Falconer, can you elaborate on what is meant by this statement concerning other immunologic factors and why they would interfere with a rabies titer result? Thanks!

Yes, but they speak out both sides of their mouth, and are inferring that my dog's immunocompromised cancer condition is not sufficient to be given a waiver since the vaccines pose no threat of inducing rabies:
"Because rabies continues to be a significant public health issue, waivers should not be issued arbitrarily upon client request and should be based upon clinical evidence that the animal would be at considerable risk of being harmed by the vaccine because of a diagnosed medical condition. Modern killed virus or recombinant rabies vaccines have no risk of inducing rabies in the vaccinated animal and are not contraindicated in most immunocompromised animals. Advanced age of the animal or a desire on the part of the client or veterinarian to minimize the use of vaccinations (in the absence of a specific contraindication to vaccination) should not be considered sufficient justification for issuing a rabies vaccination waiver."
I live in upstate NY, and since my dogs are in the system, if there is no waiver to be had, I will receive penalties and fines for not re-licensing them due to having no current rabies vaccination certificate. I will not be giving my older boy with cancer any rabies vaccine and I stopped all others several years ago upon learning all about vaccines and titers, and his came back high. I still have a younger female pup to worry about, though. The Town will "hound" me forever (pun intended), especially since the Clerk is a neighbor who does not like me ;)
You're right, Doc, don't put them in the system to begin with. I am going to contact you regarding the Rabies Tautode of which you speak. I thought I would request Lyssin 200C but you've got me very interested in this latest treatment. Thank you!