Comments on Duration of Immunity and Rabies Vaccination

Thank you and I apologize for posting in the wrong place! Was reading so much I sort of forgot where I was.....I sort of had some thoughts on the vaccination conversation as well as the apoquel conversation. What I failed to mention is that I KNOW the allergies worsened after the last vaccinations. Until then it was manageable and not really too bad. My local vet will not acknowledge the correlation. Anyhow, I am familiar w/homeopathy having gone through a couple years of intense homeopathic treatment w/another dog. Very unfortunately, that vet moved to a different part of the country. I will however look @ your recommendations and go from there! Thank you so very much!

I rescued a yellow lab when she was 1 year of age. She had never been vaccinated, was fed poorly and tested positive for lymes. My local vet, whom I had really liked because he was really open minded about my previous treatment of another dog w/a holistic and homeopathic vet for osteo scarcoma saw her and of course he recommended vaccination immediately and treatment for lymes although she did not have symptoms nor had she ever had symptoms. We do live in a very tick infested area of the woods and almost all dogs and people have had some form of tick born illness. I did go ahead w/the initial rabies, parvo, distemper vaccinations, but spread them out rather than the load they prefer to give. Once she had completed the protocol I have not allowed further vaccinations but do titers as needed. There is always adequate protection.
Moving forward, this dog has developed seasonal allergies that have become debilitating for her over the last couple of summers. We live on a lake in northern MN that is very clean and we all swim constantly so if there were something in the water we would all have been affected. I know the dog has a pollen reaction but which one is any ones guess. We did serum testing that I now feel was a waste of money. A couple of years ago I was desperate to find her a solution and allowed the vet to give her 3 steroid injections while I was researching other options. Everything subsided over the winter months but before it began again last summer I got some Transfer Factor Plus and began giving her that in an attempt to avoid a miserable summer for her. She has eaten a balanced fresh and raw diet since I adopted her 7 years ago. She gets lots of exercise all year. She has been a happy healthy dog other than this escalating allergy situation during the warm, pollen filled months.
Regardless of all I did, the itching returned last summer. I gave up and took her in to the vet again to discuss possible options and he immediately recommended apoquel. I had been reading Dr Hines' website and was familiar w/the drug. I got a bottle of the apoquel w/the recommended dose being 16 mg 2x daily. I did that the first day and sure enough, her itching ceased and she just looked so comfortable and happy! But, being the minimalist w/drugs that I am I figured why not try a lesser dose and see how it goes. As it turned out I watched her closely, did all the things I could to minimize pollen getting to her skin and was able to control the itching w/an 8mg dose of apoquel every 24-48 hours. Since we only need the extra help for a short period of time, I felt that it was the best compromise I could make to keep her comfortable and hopefully minimize the risk from the drug. I continued the TR+ along w/cool baths and rinses after swimming and good towelings after those as well in an effort to just collect as much of the offending pollens as possible. (In my mind, anyway...)
As soon as we had a hard frost in the fall, the need for any further apoquel disappeared and the winter months we worked on building her immune system. Sure enough this spring, the itching began to return. Once it became systemic to the point of not being able to even touch her w/out it setting off spasms and scratching I succumbed to the 8mg dose of apoquel on a minimal basis. Again, it is suppressing the misery of the itching. At this point I don't know what else to do as we continue w/the TF+, fresh foods and balanced raw diet, soothing shampoos, cool showers and good exercise. I even rub organic coconut oil into her skin occasionally as it is so soothing and healing and she likes it! I continue to look for alternatives to apoquel but for the time being I use the least possible dose along w/everything else and it keeps her comfortable and functioning very well. I do hope for a day when it won't be necessary however.

Hi! I just joined this site and appreciate all the great information. I have a 14 year old Shih Tzu, who for the first 5 years of her life, got all the shots every year, was spayed at 4 months old, got her Frontline and heart worm preventative every month faithfully....everything I THOUGHT was the right thing to do, and I was so proud of myself for being a conscientious pet owner and doing everything "right". My sweet girl has had terrible skin issues since she was just 2 years old, and I cringe to think of all the pesticides and vaccines I put into her body those first 5 years. Since she has been the age of 5, I have done only her rabies every three years, because I thought I had to. I have been making my own food for her for the last year, and she is thriving on it. I just wish I had known then what I know now.
We just brought home Maltese puppy in April. He will be raised so much different than my Shih Tzu was raised now that I know what I know. I have just a couple of questions...after the initial puppy vaccine series and the rabies, does my puppy need the one year booster that my vet said he would need? I'm very disappointed in my vet, and will be continuing my search for a true holistic vet. I went to this current vet with my puppy because they claim to be holistic, and yet, they do not support my decision to not use flea and heart worm preventative. I have been using an essential oil mix on my Shih Tzu for the past 9 years, and she has never in that 9 years had a flea or a tick on her, and she has never had heartworm.
My other question is this...is garlic safe or not safe for my dogs?
Thank you!

I was bitten by a confined coyote at a conservation center, and though the wound was thorougly cleaned before I went to the ER, I did get the anti-toxin for tetanus. A month later I received a call from my state Center for Disease Control. She siad I should get the rabies vaccine. But since neither I or the coyote had any synptoms I wondered if it was wise, that it might reduce my immunity and if my body was fighting it off, then the vaccine might lower my resistance and I would get it. I told her the animal had been vaccinated, but they did not know how long or if it was effective in coyotes and if coyotes would be symtomatic for it if they did carry rabies. She also said someone could be bitten and get rabies years later. When I asked her how effective it was in dogs, she said 60%. So a vaccinated dog has a 40% chance of having rabies though vaccinated. I decided against vaccination. With those odds it did not seem protective. When I did a search about those bitten who developed it much later, it looked like her statement about getting rabid years after being bit, was based on a young child who died of rabies years after she was bit...but what could have bit her since then...and did she get treated with the rabies vaccine? YOu got to love the CDC protocol that wants you to believe in magic.

I would like to know how to get 'around' the current rabies vaccine when boarding my dog, Bella. In the past, I have always had someone come to my home, but we just moved to Ruidoso, NM and do not know many people who we would trust doing this. There is a great boarding place here but I anticipate they will want a current rabies vaccination. Any suggestions for how to deal with this?
I have to go to a new vet too, so would like the "check rabies vaccine 6 months ago and fein, can't remember the vet's name, will get it for you. I would like to get a rabies titer and blood work done to check for heart worms. I quit giving her heart worm meds the first of last year 2015. Do all vets do the rabies titer?

My dog just got her rabies titer from dr dodds and kansas state university and it showed extremely high level at 15.0. def no more rabies vaccs for her ever.
peter

Well, I did it. I said to my vet no more vaccinations. Including rabies. She doesn't agree with the rabies law but still advised me to do it. She said she would still accept my dog at her clinic without getting it though because i asked, otherwise I'd have to find someone else. I also called the town and told them i rehomed my dog. I know I made the right decision.

Creative commentary , Just to add my thoughts , if someone needs a 2008 DD 2208 , my kids encountered a sample document here Rabies Certificate.

P.S. I now have an 18 month old Scottie female (intact and will stay that way until she has fully matured) who is non-vaccinated. I will get her titered soon to see if she has any natural immunities (carried over from her mother, who'd been vaccinated as a puppy).

I have a 12+ yr. old male westie who has not been vaccinated since his 6 month booster. He was castrated at age 7.
I lived in the Netherlands and only recently returned to the USA and am astounded by the PUSH of the vets to get not only a rabies vaccine but many, many other unnecessary vaccinations.
My vet in the Netherlands was very accommodating and sensible with regards to any vaccinations or meds. He was first and foremost concerned with the effect on my dog. I encountered homeopathic veterinary medicine in the Netherlands in order to find a solution for the "vaccinosis" I saw in my 9 mo. old puppy (I imported him to Holland in 2004). I had already started him cautiously on raw food but that didn't solve his allergic-type reactions to the 6 mo. old vaccination cocktail he'd received. My homeopathic vet examined him and asked many personality-type questions and was able to specify a remedy that literally turned his life (and mine) around! I'm so glad that I am by nature a very observant person because this helped so much in the diagnosis and cure.
From 2005-2013 we lived in the Netherlands and benefitted from the care of this Hvet. Even now I will telephone her for a consult.
With regard to vaccinations... My 12+ yr old westie male had a blood test/titer each year to comply with rabies requirements. He tested above minimum range until 3 years ago. He was slightly below range and my Dutch vet suggested a rabies vaccination and I consulted with my Homeopathic vet regarding eventual fall-out should I really need to do this (to be honest I would have refused rather than put my dog through the hell he experienced after his 6 mo. vaccination).
Then I read about a study regarding rabies vaccines dropped in remote locations in the USA to combat rabies among coyotes. The coyotes only sniffed the vaccines and natural immune levels increased. I consulted my Dutch vet to try an experiment by allowing my westie to only sniff the rabies vaccine that would have normally been injected. He agreed. He donned white gloves/mask and broke open the vial and placed it on a cotton ball. I held my dog as close to the cotton ball as possible without letting him touch it. We held that pose for one minute and then discarded the cotton ball. 10 days later we re-tested my dog with a blood titer and his reaction had spiked! It was no longer necessary for him to be vaccinated with a rabies booster!
He has still retained his minimum levels on the titers.... in fact, he was imported to the USA in Nov. 2013 with those titer levels and NO rabies vaccination since 2004.
Tell that to the authorities!

I have just read thru all of this and find it so fascinating. I currently have 2 small dogs from the shelter and am working with Dr. MaryBeth Minter in AZ on skin issues for my little poodle mix that she attributes to rabies miasm. She is due for another vaccination next month and a re- register and even tho Dr. Minter has written a vaccination waiver for me, I am going to try to "stay under the radar" and keep the waiver for back up. My work with dogs goes back many years and has been a slow awakening for me from the highly traditional methods to my totally holistic beliefs today. I worked for the military Veterinarians for many years and am now totally appalled at the "advice" that I was taught and dispensed to people for many years. I was taught that the more vaccines you give and at frequent intervals, the better for the animal (and that older animals needed them even more, because they had weaker immune systems than younger ones). Also, if you didn't have them on heartworm prevention and topical flea prevention, you were harming your pet! They still adhere to these protocols. I did foster care and worked with rescue groups and had many dogs pass thru my home, in addition to the 5 older "foster failures" that I owned. I quit that Vet job and started down the natural path. I found a "holistic" Vet many years ago and started working with her. I know now that she is basically "fauxlistic" but she was a step up from Dr. Whitecoat. Anyway, after a series of mis-steps with my beloved little pekinese from her and the traditional specialists because of which he spent the last two years of his life ill and going from one crisis to another, I finally let him go at 13 years old which broke my heart. I dropped Dr. Fauxlistic and have turned to totally homeopathic. I belong to DNM academy, Dr. Will's Vital Animals and absorb everything I can find. I just want to say thank you to these wonder truly Homeopathic Vets for doing all of this and to this fabulous Homeopathic Community for all the advice and support. I felt like I was swimming against the tide for years and although I still am, you folks are my life preserver! BTW, I have been kicked out of 2 Dr. Whitecoat's clinics and told not to come back unless I could co-operate with Vet, who knew more than I could ever know, told I was terrible pet parent for not receiving proper vet care for my dogs and denied two adoptions that I wanted from a rescue because I would not agree to the vaccinations and heartworm prevention. It is a constant uphill battle, but well worth it. I use a mobile pet groomer who comes to my house and doesn't ask for vaccination proof, a pet/house sitter when I travel (who follows my strict protocols on feeding and where to take my dogs), no dog parks, and I have an old rabies certificate, that I just copy and alter to carry with us when we travel in our motor home (just in case). Life is Good!

I had not vaccinated my 9 month old kittens until last week and really didn't want to do it then, but they had gotten a bat and I freaked! I haven't gotten the results yet about whether or not the bat had rabies. Could I have avoided the rabies shot even if the bat comes back positive?

Thanks Doc, the thing that is most perplexing is that the vets at OSU vet school will not even examine her without a full series of inoculations which they want us to start at 6 weeks! We will continue to follow a natural course of treatment with complete faith that we will be shown the way for him/her to have a full recovery. Miracles Happen!

We just took into rescue a new mom and 3 pups. While she was at the pound and at around 1 month into gestation, she was given a 7 way and rabies. She has one pup with a rare developmental anomaly called Perineal Hypospadias ... don't yet know if he/she is Bruce or Caitlin but a few articles that we read said that it could very well be caused by vaccines while pregnant. she has no visible male or female organs or anus in the appropriate place. She will need several reconstructive or gender reassignment surgeries. I AM hoping the Dr. Will might have a suggestion or two for any homeopathics that could support her elimination and/or prevention for bladder or colon problems/infections which she/he is starting to have. She is vigorous in every other way and the most interesting thing is that she was the runt at one week and has now outgrown her/his siblings. If anyone might be willing to contribute to her soon to be immense surgery bills, please visit our website and we will keep you updated on her progress. I AM as you are with Love for the animals.

Wow! Love all the good information in this post and the comments. While I have not yet reached the point of falsifying anything, and I have fulfilled the intent of the law, I do find myself skirting around some of the so-called requirements of my city (which will remain nameless although it is a pretty big city in north Texas with a stadium that looks like the mother ship).
I did register my dogs and maybe even renewed once but can't figure out how to get around the old rabies certificate thing so I have not re-registered in 2 years. This city is way too big for ACOs to go door to door checking. My holistic vet does not push vaccines so I do not have trouble in that department.
My breed is known to have a number of autoimmune issues so I don't want to do anything that would set something off.
My 3 year old dog has histiocytosis (cutaneous) and is under the care of a dermatologist who has written in each of her check up notes that vaccines are not to be given. I did have her titer tested which shows "good" immunity.
Last weekend I took her to one of those dog swim events at a pool in another city and they did have ACOs checking paperwork so I showed the original rabies certificate (which she saw had expired) and I also showed the titer results and notes from her specialist and that seemed to satisfy the ACO! I don't take her to dog parks or regular kennels because of her condition but she does go to training classes and trials. I have a good friend that has taken her a couple of times when we needed to travel without her. My groomer has not asked about vaccinations and I try to limit her time there anyway.
Unfortunately she has to be on some serious meds to keep her disease under control. We have stopped the heartworm pills and everything else we can for both this dog and our 7 year old dog. I think I will ask for an "exemption letter" for him when the time comes. They are also both co-owned so if it comes down to it, I will say they were with the co-owner in another state for a while.
I do hope the laws are changed soon and I try to educate my friends who talk about getting their dogs "annual shots". Ugh!

Hello Dr.,
As non Dr's, we try to do the 'right' thing with our pets. If we vaccinate, there could be toxicity problems, if we don't - there could be disease or other problems. It's so frustrating and I've been debating this issue as well for a long time. I have a concern and some questions.
My dog, Patch, had his first 'seizure' June 2014 (he is 9yrs/Chihuahua mix) 3 days after his annual Distemper vaccine. No treatment was given because the Dr's didn't believe it was related. Patch had his annual booster this June with seemingly no complications. He's also been on Heartgaurd monthly since May - only the summer/fall months. Last week I gave him the Heartgaurd chew and the next day noticed at one point, it appeared he was going to vomit, but didn't. The following day (now 2 days after drug) he had another 'seizure'. The vets are telling me it was a seizure, but it looked more like stroke to me. His face froze up, chin to chest and eyes bulged a bit. After, he wandered about for a minute to try to get comfortable, hanging his head low and arching back. To me it looked like he had a severe headache and was trying to get comfortable. He had a similar, but shorter episode the following day. So over a period of 3-4 days, 3-4 instances. Lethargic in between, barking less and somewhat hoarse. Appetite and bathroom duties normal.
Bloodwork came back perfect. Dr's are telling me they believe he has a brain tumor. I think it could be related to the drugs/toxicity since both 'seizure' occurrences happened within days of drugs administered. They started a course of Prednisone and within 24 hrs, he is nearly back to normal. (not fully)
Would the CBC be normal if there was toxicity from the Ivermectin in Heartgaurd? What do you do for your dog if they are toxic from these meds - I can't seem to find a treatment course online.
Thank you (so much) in advance for your help!
Sincerely,
Jennifer

This vet does do phone consults, but doesn't feel this sort of thing was a good candidate for phone consults.........:(
So then naturally, I'm suspicious of one who does, afraid I'll be throwing more money away.
Regardless, it's not going to help her today, she's tearing herself to bits.
We have an appt. for her Pred. prescription tomorrow night, kills me but she is a train wreck and nothing else stops the itch. Apoquel may have been a better alternative but not sold here in Canada......
If you believe this is a candidate for phone consults I will keep looking in hopes we can prevent it next year.
Appreciate your help Doc, keep up the good fight!

I found IDT and ASIT very helpful and effective. I had tried everything else for over a year with negative results. Peace.

@Lori, I had excellent results by taking my dog to a dermatologist/specialist. It's an option.

Hello again Doctor, you gave me the link to Homeopathic vets for my allergy GSD.
The one I chose who is 100% Homeopathic said she is not comfortable doing consults by phone re: this matter, pointed out another one closer but she is only 25% and frankly if the 100% one doesn't think phone consults are a good idea for allergies..................well, you know
So! My last question to you, she is actually causing sores now from her constant chewing & scratching, clearly what I'm trying isn't working.
Is there ANYTHING I can do to avoid Pred., to me an elizabethian collar is just torture at this stage............HELP???